150. MyMaine Birth: Kelly’s Story of How a Family Centered Free Birth ReWrote Her View of Birth after Three Hospital Experiences
Wanting Privacy In Labor
Kelly0:00
And so yeah, I'm laboring along. I'm upstairs. I'm in and out of the bathroom in my bedroom. And just, you know, wanting to be by myself and wanting to be alone and wanting to be undisturbed. Yeah. So I didn't feel the need to call the midwife. I didn't feel the need to call the duel. I didn't want like extra eyes just standing there and watching me. I really wanted to be private. And like even my husband would come in and check on me. Like, are you okay? Like I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. Like I didn't even want, like, I didn't really even need him to be with me. I just wanted to be alone. Like I loved knowing that he was there if I needed anything, but um, I didn't really feel like I needed someone right there with me.
Angela0:40
I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer, experienced doula, childbirth educator, and your host here on the My Main Birth podcast. This is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine. From our state's biggest hospitals, the birth center births, and home births. Every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated. Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you. Welcome to episode 150 of My Main Birth. Today's birth story guest is Kelly, and she is here to share her four birth stories with us. Her first three births were in hospitals. And then for her fourth birth, she decided to do things a little differently, and she chose a home birth. All right. Hi, Kelly. Welcome to my main birth. Hi. To get started, would you share a little bit about you and your family?
Kelly1:48
Yeah, so my name's Kelly. I'm a mom of four. I have a nine-year-old, a seven-year-old, a four-year-old, and a one-year-old. And I'm currently mostly home with my one-year-old. Um, but I am a physical therapist by trade. So I'm getting into specializing in perinatal. So I want to help mothers achieve the birth that I had for my last birth, which was incredible, which I'm sure we'll get to.
Kelly’s Background And First Pregnancy
Angela2:21
Cool. I'm so excited to hear all about it. Yeah, so to get started, would you share how you found out you were pregnant for the first time and what your thoughts were in choosing your care then?
Breech Baby And Unplanned C-Section
Kelly2:35
Okay, so I was a newbie way back when it's hard to go back all that time because I know so much more now than I did then. But yeah, we were trying to conceive and got pregnant pretty easily. Not a lot of trouble there. I think first or second month of trying. So I'm very lucky and grateful for that. Um, we were living, we were, my husband and I are both physical therapists. So at the time we were traveling physical therapists and we were stationed, we were in Maine. I was working at Central Maine Medical Center in Lewiston, and I think my husband was doing something else, like home health or something like that. And uh, so we found out we were pregnant and we pursued care through CMMC because I was working there, and that's where we ended up delivering the baby as well. The story with that one is that I was pretty fit at the time. I was working out a lot. My husband and I really enjoyed doing that together. So um I was continuing that through pregnancy, and I ended up having a breach baby. And he was his head was right under my right rib, and I, you know, was told to, you know, wait it out. He'll turn, he's got plenty of time, no problem, it'll all be fine. And then we get to 32 weeks, and that's when they tell me to go see a chiropractor, to go see an acupuncture, start doing things to try to get him to turn, which I did. I did acupuncture. My husband and I laid on the floor, put my feet up, and had the mox abustion going at the pinky toes. And I remember looking at him and being like, What are we doing right now? How did we get to this point? Um, and then I booked an external version to try to get him to turn, which was unsuccessful and quite painful. I had to be admitted to the hospital for that in case it turned into an emergency of any kind. I was scared. I was tremendous I mean, I remember just being terrified of the whole process. It was uh not a great memory for me. Um, but it did not end up working, and uh they didn't try too hard, they gave it a little shot. I remember the doctor and the nurses had like four hands on my belly, and they were kind of like trying to turn him together, and I was really tense, and it just wasn't a good situation to encourage a baby to go a different way. First pregnancy, you know, I was just the typical patient, like whatever, you know, I worked in a medical system, I was very, I was working in a hospital at a time. I was just in the headspace of whatever my doctor tells me to do is what I'm gonna do. And I didn't question anything at the time. Um, my husband as well. We were just very much like, I don't know what's going on. I've never had a baby before. Obviously, he's the expert and he knows what he's doing. So anyway, it ended up being unsuccessful and he didn't turn. So I made peace with the C-section because there are no doctors that delivered vaginally that I was aware of. I also didn't know Maine very well because I was a traveler at the time, so it's not like I had deep-rooted connections to Maine with a lot of people to talk to about it. Um, so anyway, I was working at CMMC on a Saturday. I was doing my weekend rotation, getting one more in before the birth of my baby. The funny part of this story is I remember there was a I was the physical therapist, so my job was to get patients out of bed post-operatively, you know, and I remember it was a Saturday. This was a kind of a heavy, demanding job, which I don't think there's anything wrong with being physically active while you're pregnant, but I do remember this one patient that had multiple broken bones and like wasn't couldn't put any weight on one leg and had a broken arm, so couldn't even really use crutches. And I remember asking a nurse to help me get this patient out of bed, green while I was fully pregnant. And she looked at me and she said, Sorry, I'm on light duty. I have a back injury. So I had to maneuver, and it was a Saturday with limited staffing, so I remember I had to maneuver this patient out of bed by myself. This turns into me realizing that whole day before this patient I worked with this patient that whole day, I was leaking some sort of fluid and being my first time pregnancy, I thought it was cervical fluid. I didn't know what it was, so I remember my shift ended. I walked from my territory where the physical therapy department was over to labor and delivery. I just popped in around five o'clock and I said, I've been leaking this fluid all day. It's enough to where I need a pad. I'm sure it's nothing. You know, of course, don't want to be the patient that's making a big deal out of anything. So I'm sure it's nothing, but I just wanted to like stop by and let you know. And so they were like, okay, yeah, we're sure it's nothing, but we'll just test the fluid and just make sure it's not amniotic fluid. Um, and I did test it, and it was amniotic fluid, so that led to uh C-section that night at nine o'clock. So it was uh, you know, my husband got the call that we're having a baby tonight instead of the scheduled time, which was I think a week or two later. And we had a baby that night. It was all very much managed. I was very much disconnected from the entire process. You know, I remember the baby kind of was like brought to my face and then was taken to the warmer. I remember he was bundled up and swaddled. I didn't get a lot of skin-to-skin time with him. I had no, I have no idea what happened to the cord or delayed cord clamping or any of that. You know, I was just, like I said, doing whatever the doctor told me to do and didn't really put a whole lot of thought into exactly how I wanted that birth to go. I also felt kind of like it was out of my control because I had a breech baby. So yeah, luckily I was able to breastfeed him. It was hard in the beginning, but we did get to the point where I was breastfeeding him and he ended up breastfeeding until he was four. So I'm very much glad that that was successful because I do feel like that was the one part that like bonded us back together, brought mommy baby diad back together as one because the birth was so disconnected. But I still see signs in him from his birth that make me realize how much your birth matters to the type of human you are. Like he is very much of a strong-willed child, like he wants to do things on his own terms. I think a lot of that has to do with him being pulled out from my belly rather than coming through my birth canal. Um, I find that sometimes like touch and stuff, he kind of cringes, like he's very highly sensitive in that way, like because he maybe he didn't get that squeezing through the birth canal like he should have being born. So yeah, it's just like I've learned so much, and I think his birth like still affects him to this day about the way he was born. So it's just very interesting that way. So that's that one.
Angela9:43
Yeah, oh my goodness. That's and it is really interesting how your birth like does affect you, you know, life, how you're born, how you're born matters, and how your birth matters, even for the mother and the baby, yeah. So much.
Kelly9:56
Yeah, we have open conversations. I'm like, Luca, his name is Luca. I'm like, the reason you're doing rest right now is because of the way you were born. Like, we I know that it's because you didn't get to come out on your own terms, and now you want to make your own way in this world, and I get it, but you know, the one thing I can look back on and be happy about is that labor probably would have started soon since I was leaking the fluid. So I like to think that he was ready to be born and he wasn't just, you know, taken out of my body at a certain number of weeks, you know. So I think that's my one saving grace that we had a great successful breastfeeding journey, and that I'm hoping that he was very close to coming out on his own, you know, since I had that amniotic fluid leaking. But I also look back and wonder if the amniotic fluid leaking was caused by the version, if that was the reason the amniotic fluid started started leaking, or you know, it's hard to hard to know. And just a little bit of everything combined.
Angela10:56
Yeah.
Disconnection After Birth And Breastfeeding
Kelly10:56
Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of things were learned from that birth, but um, for my second birth, I was determined to have a vaginal delivery.
Angela11:05
So at this point, how did all of that go like postpartum for you? Kind of unpacking like your experience of what had just happened and then thinking about becoming pregnant again, like leading up to when you found out for the second time.
VBAC Prep In Florida With Doula
Kelly11:17
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy that like I didn't have any kind of like traumatic birth experience ending in a C-section. It was very much like C-section due to positioning of the baby, like nothing else. So, like I never really doubted my I did doubt my ability to go into labor because my second baby was very much late and I was on a deadline. We were living in Florida at the time, and their rules are like 42 weeks or you're done. Like, they don't really give you any kind of leeway in that state. It's very much a law, you have to go into labor by 42 weeks, or you're gonna have another C-section, basically. But like I didn't carry any kind of trauma with me towards that birth, which I'm grateful for, but I was very much wanting to prove that I could have a vaginal birth. I was like determined. Like I was like, I'm doing this, I'm gonna have this baby vaginally. I don't know what gave me that because I my first birth was very much like whatever the doctor tells me to do, I'll do. I'm just the passive recipient, you know, and not really taking charge at all. But the second birth, this like inner mama came out of me, and I was like, I'm doing this my way, like we're gonna figure this out. So I found we were we were still traveling physical therapists, but now we were down in Florida. We were doing an assignment there. I was working again at a hospital in Florida called Flagler Hospital in St. Augustine, and I was in a staff of young therapists who were also having babies. So one of the speech therapists told me about a doctor in that hospital that specialized in VBACs, and I was like, that's the one I'm going with. I want the doctor that specializes in VBACs. So I did, and I yeah, I had a successful VBAC in a hospital. He was a very kind man and he I felt well cared for. I was still doing the thing like my doctor knows best, and I need like medical support, and you know, I never I still wasn't in the headspace to where I was in my fourth birth, but um I was uh I remember that she was late. She was supposed to be born on May 4th, and she ended up being born May 14th. So as I was talking about earlier, I had this deadline looming over me at the end, which was very stressful. Um, I remember it was hot in Florida and I was doing a lot of walking outside to get labor going. I was drinking raspberry leaf tea. I just felt this like pressure to like get this baby or I'm gonna end up with a c-section. Like that's the way I was feeling. Like that was obviously preventing me from going into labor, but that's the messages I was getting. Like, if I don't get this baby, if I don't get this labor started, I'm gonna have a c-section because my doctor told me that because you're a VVAC, I cannot induce. Thank God I couldn't get induced because that's the last thing I would have wanted. But it was like, go into labor on your own, or you're gonna have a c-section. So I had that two-week deadline looming over me. Finally went into labor on my own. I was smart enough to prepare with a doula that time. Um, and I credit that doula from for letting me stay home as long as I did. I labored at home until the very end. I stayed out of that hospital for almost the entire labor. I remember I breastfed my um two-year-old at the time to sleep and then labor, and I was feeling the contraction starting with the breastfeeding. He went to sleep, and then labor kind of started soon after that, around eight or nine o'clock at night. Um, I had this doula on call, but my husband was with me from like eight till 12. I remember I was doing a lot of swaying and rocking. Granted, I had never felt contractions before. So this was basically a first, you know, first-time vaginal birth. But I remember being all like, you know, kind of leaning on my kitchen countertop and like swaying and moving my hips and kind of like making noises and stuff. And I remember around 12 o'clock that night, my husband looks at me and I was like, you know, starting to feel the pain and the surges and all that stuff. And he looks at me, he's like, I don't know what else to do for you. I think we should go to the hospital. So I was like, okay. So instead of doing that, I'm very thankful we called the doula. And she came over and she was the one that allowed me to stay home another, oh, probably like three or four hours, really. I remember she got me into the tub in the bathroom, and I was kind of in like a kind of like a hands and knees position, and she was taking buckets of water and like running the water over my back, which was amazing to help manage the contractions, just the you know, tricking the brain to focus on something else other than the labor pain. So that really helped. She just did a really great job of like not telling me what to do, but just tuning in, and it just felt so good to have a wise woman there to that seen a lot of birth before, that like knew what normal was, knew, you know, normal sounds that women make, and it just felt really comforting to have another woman with me. I think if I didn't have that doula, I probably would have gone to the hospital a lot sooner, and it probably would have ended in a lot of more medical interventions. But I got to the hospital, they did the cervical exam because you know that's the only way they admit you to the hospital, despite not really probably wanting it. Um, and I was eight centimeters, so it was go time, and it was like she's coming any second. It was a mad rush. The doctor was driving in from who knows where, runs in, sets up, and like she is bored as soon as he gets there. So I was on my back pushing. I didn't really get a lot of choice as far as what position to be in or anything like that. I do have memories of that birth of the doctor doing a lot of things, like liquids and moving his hands, and like very much involved in my vulgar area while I was pushing and all. And I remember nurses telling me to push and holding my hands and giving me a lot of advice. It was a lot of them talking to me and coaching me rather than just like letting me do it on my own in silence and the way my body wanted to do it.
Angela17:35
The way you started doing it, the whole beginning of your labor, like you had kind of seen that difference of like this is what I was doing and this is what I'm doing now.
Fast Hospital Birth And Tandem Nursing
Kelly17:42
Yeah, yeah. So I remember like being on my back in the bed, like it's pushing time, get in bed, you know, like no other you know, just them totally managing everything about that birth. I'm just so happy that you know she came out with no complications, she was nine pounds and something, so I never got the big baby spiel about you can't go into labor because your baby's too big. So a lot of that I'm very thankful for. And I had then I breastfed her with no problem. I was already so used to breastfeeding my toddler at the time, and then I tandem nursed for another two years at least. I think my toddler was four when he stopped. So the best story I have about this is that I had a toddler boob and a baby boob. I had a baby that like had a pre in the beginning, I was giving the baby both sides, but it progressed to the baby having one side and the toddler having another side, and they knew each other's sides. Where my toddler would I would try to give him the milk from the baby side, and he would be like, No, that's Colby's side, so they could taste the milk and the difference between the two. And then it got to the point where I was like, This is so weird. How do they know the difference? I ended up like pumping just to look at it, and there was two different milks, like one was a totally different color than the other one. It was incredible. Like my body was making two different milks for what that child needed. So I just thought that was so cool about you know the amazing nature of our female bodies and how we can make exactly what our babies need for them. Yeah. Um my gosh, that is so cool. That's amazing. I know, I loved that. So yeah, and then uh, you know, he ended up stopped stopping nursing. I kept on with her until she until I got pregnant with my third baby. She was my toddler, my oldest baby, I think, nursed for comfort, like to fall asleep. Whereas my daughter, my second baby, definitely was in it for the milk. And when I got pregnant the third time and there was less milk coming out, she was like, Where's the milk? You know, she was more like, Where's the milk? There's nothing in there. So she just lost interest after that. So then I got pregnant with the third baby, and now we're back in Maine living in Portland. And so once you have a C-section, I guess you're always a V back at this point, even though I had already had a successful V back. So I was still I was working at Maine Medical Center at the time. I was getting a little bit more holistically minded, where I wanted to find a hospital with a tub. And so I chose to berth at Northern Light, Mercy, you know, the new Mercy campus for that one. And I remember I don't remember how I chose that doctor. I think I just chose the hospital basically, and just went with the practice that was with that hospital. And so that birth was um overall, I didn't have the same like drive to prove myself that I could have a vaginal birth. So I remember that I was a little bit like let's get this over with kind of feeling for that birth. I was strep B positive and my water broke before any contractions started. So being the good patient, I went to the hospital as soon as my water broke without any contractions starting. And I think they told you to do being because that's what they told me to do, being strep positive. Now that I know what I know, I might have done things differently, but at the time I didn't have that knowledge. So I remember my parents had to drive from Darmascata down to Portland to stay with the older two kids. And this was very much they were asleep, it was the middle of the night, so we put them to bed, and it was very much the birth of like mommy and daddy left, and they came home with a baby. Like, there was no involvement with the two of them. This was 2021 at the time, so I'm sure COVID was still a factor as far as like kids not being allowed to come to the hospital to see their baby, that kind of thing. So we just like left and then pushed to leave to come home pretty quickly, like to return home. I was worried about them. I wanted to get back to my babies and my family. I remember just feeling. Feeling a lot of sadness that like they couldn't be a part of it. Like it felt very disconnected that they weren't involved in the birth of their baby brother. Like it was just like mommy, daddy left and they came home with a baby. It was, you know, strange. Like they're just they have no idea how that happened. But I went to the hospital with him. I remember having a nurse that was very much managing me, telling me what to do. I got in the tub. I was very happy in the tub. I was much better for pain control. I wanted to stay in the tub, and I was forced to get out of the tub to push. So I didn't get the choice to have the baby where I wanted to have the baby.
Angela22:38
Can you walk me through like how that went? That's something I feel like that comes up a lot of like working with women, and they're just like, I'm allowed to leave the tub, but I can't birth in the tub, and like I don't know what that's gonna be like. And yes, like I'm curious. I know that's something a lot of people ask if you'd be able to share more about that like moment.
Third Birth Tub Labor And Consent Gaps
Kelly22:55
Yeah. I mean, I remember like her looking at me and being and maybe she checked me in the tub. I don't know exactly how she knew, but maybe my sounds, my vocalization was starting to change, and she was just like, It's go like she was go time, and like I it was just like, I'm sorry, like you can't have the baby in the tub. You can't, like there was definitely like a no, no, no. And I was like, I'm happy here, like I just want to stay in here. But I was being the good girl and the fawning and the doing whatever I'm told kind of thing to not be too much trouble, you know, the way we're taught to be good girls and follow along with the plan. And when you labor it so hard not to be like, Yeah, I didn't have the energy, I couldn't advocate for myself or fighting for myself. I was having a baby, like you know, my husband doesn't know any better. He's also just like listening to the advice of the medical professionals that we give all our outsourcing and credit to. So yeah, I I remember I she told me I had to get out of the tub. So I stood up from the tub and took those couple steps from the tub over to the bed, and I just felt like this um like very strong urge to push. Like something about the like standing up out of the water, just like had that baby drop right down. So I got right in the bed on my back, legs and stirrups, and you know, pushed him right out. But I remember my whole attitude was just like, I don't want to be here, I don't want to be doing this. I didn't feel like that powerful, strong woman, like, watch me, hear me roar, look what I can do. I just felt like I was doing something I didn't want to be doing, and it was like not a good feeling. It wasn't empowering. It was like doing what I'm told right now, but this is not this is not what I would have chosen, kind of thing. So he was born without a lot of, you know. I remember just he was born and then brought to my chest. They did a lot more of that, like bringing the baby to your chest versus the C-section was like, bring the baby to my face so I can see him and then take him to the warmer, you know, and then you know, he had jaundice and all kinds of stuff. Whereas this baby like stayed with me, luckily. Um, so I found Northern Light to be a little bit more holistic that way. Granted, this is 2021, I don't know what's changed, but it was still very much like I did not think about my placenta at all, these three births. I just knew I wanted an unmedicated birth, which is what I've got, but I never once thought about Pitocin for the placenta. So I know for that third birth, like I was not asked about Pitocin, it was just given to me to birth my placenta. Like there was no conversation of informed consent about Pitocin and the placenta. It was just like, this is what we do, this is standard of care. And then I remember back to the placenta, the second birth having the doula. She was a placenta encapsulator, so I ended up having my placenta for that one. But it was a big deal taking your placenta home from the hospital. It was like, this is medical waste, like you need to have the right container for it to bring it home. Like, we're not gonna touch it. We don't do any, like, it was very much like this is yours, and it's like very dirty and disgusting, and like it wasn't like a good like energy about how sacred the placenta is. It was like, uh, you want that thing? Like, then bring your own container in and like take it home. I don't know what you want with it. Um, so I did end up taking the placentas after you know the the pills after the second birth. I didn't really find that it changed anything as far as like I was taking it more for like my mood and to prevent postpartum depression and that kind of thing. And I didn't notice like a huge change with it. I just felt like I was swallowing a bunch of pills with it. So I ended up not encapsulating my placenta or keeping my placenta for that third birth. I didn't really understand the sacredness of the placenta and just like how you know it's like your baby's f best friend, and like it should be like I guess respectfully buried or something, you know, there should be some sacred way to like say goodbye to it. I wasn't at that point where I knew about all of that um for any of the first three births, but for my fourth birth that changed. So yeah, I just said like this is my process has just been like so evolving from like this not knowing anything about birth and like being very much in the medical system to like the complete 180 for the fourth birth of like totally out of the hospital and everything. So um, I'm just trying to think if there's anything to wrap up that third birth again. Breastfeeding went well, very comfortable with it by that time. Bonding was great for all of these. I never really felt postpartum depression or anxiety or any of that stuff. I felt very much connected to my babies. Yeah, I remember I but I one thing I will say about that third birth, which I hadn't learned yet, the importance of rest after delivery. Had no idea, nobody ever once told me how much you need to rest after you give birth. We were living in the west end of Portland at the time. I remember, you know, I had two older kids. I remember I was like one or two days home. The whole family gets up, takes this is May, so like the weather's starting to feel good. The whole family gets up and takes a walk to the local playground, you know. I'm like, I'm like two days postpartum, and here I am out and about walking to the playground with my newborn baby on me, like not thinking anything of that. No one once gave me the advice, like the five days in bed, five days around the bed, five days. No one had ever talked to me about that before. I was just like in the mentality, like, I am a strong woman, I can do whatever I want, kind of thing. No one ever took the time to be like, your body is depleted and needs to be replenished, and you gotta stay in bed. I had no meal trains, nothing like that set up for me. So, and I had three kids, and it was just my husband being a PT, being in the medical world, always got one or two weeks off max. So I just never had a lot of postpartum support for any of those the first three babies. I didn't know that it existed, I didn't know the importance of it. The medical, you know, the OBGYNs, I feel like do not talk to you at all about the postpartum.
Angela29:08
And I just're getting these books that say, as long as you're not co-sleeping with your baby, it's so dangerous. Yeah, right, right. You don't care like that.
Kelly29:17
Don't co-sleep.
Speaker 129:18
Yeah.
Kelly29:19
Yeah. I co-slept with luckily all of my babies, every single one of them. I figured that out very quickly how much more sleep I got when my baby was right next to me. Like when I could just turn over, nurse them, and go back to sleep. Like, I just cannot believe the women, like some women have their babies in some room on the other side of the house. And every time the baby cries, they get out of their bed, stand up, walk over to the other side of the house, get their baby out of the crib, sit in a chair, nurse them till the baby falls back to sleep, puts the baby back in the crib and walks back to bed and does that three or four times a night. That's gonna be so exhausting.
Angela29:58
It is exhausting, and it's not support, you know. Like, it's like if you're doing that because that's like how you like it and that's how you want, that's one thing. But if it's like if you're doing that because that's what like your doctor says, like, you know, we're sharing some stories that say maybe it's not.
Kelly30:12
I know it's so much easier, and like, you know, just the peace of mind knowing your baby is right there. Like, I just couldn't imagine being so far away from my baby, like not knowing if they're breathing. Like, I feel like I wouldn't sleep just because I'd be like, are they breathing? You know, like when the baby's right next to you, their breath is right on your body, you're smelling them, you're breathing them in, like they're responding to your CO2 that you're giving off to make them take more breaths outside of the womb. It just makes so much more sense to be right next to your baby, and that's luckily what I did. I did have most of them swaddled because that's what my doctor told me to do to keep them swaddled and all this stuff. I think I had to dock a taut because the you know, all the fear of like you might roll over onto your baby. I remember that was pretty deeply ingrained into me. Um, but again, all that changed that fourth baby, everything was different about that one. Um, so yeah, there's just a lot, it's just been such an evolving process for me to learn all this stuff. There's a lot to learn.
Angela31:11
It is, and I think it's so normal for most moms to go through, and it's like, you know, you don't know what you don't know, and then you learn more as you go through it and yeah, I think some women are lucky that they get exposed to like the right advice right from the beginning.
Kelly31:26
But most of us, you know, we go to our OBGYN when we're pregnant, and that's the advice we get, and we just don't know any better. And yeah, I mean, that's why ever since this fourth baby, I want to like devote my life to it because it's been such a in change like changing process for me. So um my goodness, well, I need to hear about it. Well, how do you think about I know? I know, I don't even know where to start. It's so hard to even put it into words.
Angela31:51
Um, what if you found out you were pregnant for the fourth time? And like, what were your kind of thoughts like when you found out you were pregnant, like about your care when you found out for that fourth time?
Postpartum Rest And Co-Sleeping Reality
Kelly32:00
Um, so for our fourth, it was definitely like we're gonna have a fourth baby, but I you know, I remember the moment exactly where we're like, let's just do it and see what happens. It's probably not gonna happen. I don't even think I'm ovulating right now, it's not gonna happen. Well, it was successful that one, you know, I can picture the exact moment. And I started feeling kind of funny. And I remember I went down to Florida with my three kids, and all of a sudden my appetite changed, and I was like, something's happening here. And, you know, like all the other ones, I took a test to confirm because I can't trust my body that I'm pregnant. I have need some outsource information that I'm pregnant, and it was positive. And you know, the initial thought was like, what are we doing for kids? Are we crazy? You know, and there was that whole part of me that's like, Am I ever gonna feel done having babies? Like, am I always gonna want one more? You know, um, but we found out that I was pregnant, and you know, once we came over the shock of it, like how that happened that one time, how is that possible? Um, yeah, we were super happy, super excited. And I was move I we now lived in Midcoast, Maine. So I was getting like more and more holistic in my thoughts. Um, I was still working in a hospital at Maine Med um and commuting, but only working on Saturdays. But I remember just like my whole like something in me was changing to where I was definitely just like more, I was more confident as a mom. I was feeling more earthy, we were living more on land. Um, and I just feel like there was this shift inside of me. And so right away, and I think I met a midwife up here, and I was like, wow, what she does seems really cool. She was just earthy and like just hippie-ish. And I was like, that's the kind of person I want to be around for this pregnancy. So my kids were going to like a homeschool program that her kids were going to. And I remember she had like a and I remember seeing her before I was pregnant. I was like, if I ever have a fourth baby, I want you to be the one delivering or being there with me, not delivering. Um, and she, you know, she was just always so warm. Um, but her name was Rebecca Kohler. Um, she's in Whitefield, Maine. And that was one of the first calls I made was calling her and being like, Well, I'm doing it. I'm having the fourth baby. And I don't even know if she was taking on new clients at the time, but luckily I knew her and uh she was willing to take up take my care for us. So um she came over and right away, it's just a breath of fresh air. She just comes into my house, she sits on my couch, she crosses her legs and sits, you know, crisscross applesauce on my couch, and it's just like connecting to a friend, you know, it's like an energy where you're just like, you don't feel like this, like power, like more powerful kind of talk, like they know and I don't kind of feeling. It's like a friend that's just so warm and welcoming, and just like makes you feel like a whole different energy, like talking about yourself and your body. And you know, she gets to the medical stuff and your history and all that, you know, determining if I'm the right candidate for a home birth. You know, I do have that C-section under my belt, so there's some conversations about that. Um, but you know, I'm 40, I think. I was 39 or 40 at the time, so geriatric pregnancy. Um, but you know, she doesn't make a big deal out of that. But it was just like such a different feel for care, and it was just so much more holistic. And I learned so much from her, and I'm so thankful that I like concluded my birthing journey with her by my side.
Angela35:44
Um, those conversations don't have that feeling of like rank, you know.
Choosing A Home Birth Midwife In Maine
Preparing For A Family Centered Birth
Labor Progresses
Kelly35:49
Yes, there's no rank, exactly. It's like we're equals, like, I'm here to help you, I'm here to give you all your options, and you make your choice. Like, these are all of the options. Like, I'm never no judgment, no, like you have to do this at a certain time. Even like talking about the glucose screening, it was like, yeah, like most women do it. If you want to, you can. If you don't want to, you don't have to. It was just very much like everything's your choice, and every and the way you do things is your choice. And I'm just here to present all your options to you, but I'm not here to make any decisions for you. Like, this is your baby, this is your family, like you're in charge. That's the way it should feel, you know? And uh, it was just so refreshing to have that. Um, after my previous experiences of, you know, and I went, I wouldn't even walk away from my first three three births, like really admitting that there was birth trauma. But like when you compare the the difference and the way I felt afterwards, I'm just like, it's night and day. It's night and day the way you feel after you give birth on your terms, the way you want to do it. Um, so one thing I did know when I went into this fourth birth was I didn't want to do the whole thing of like who's gonna watch the kids while I go and birth this baby? Like, where are they gonna go? Who's gonna come watch them? Who's gonna take them for me while I go birth my baby? And uh, so I was like, I want to be home and I want them there. I don't want to have to be home and like find places for them to go. I'm like, this is their baby too, you know, and this is like the the completion of our family, they should be a part of it, and uh yeah, like I just I wanted them to not just like mommy leaves and comes home with a baby. I wanted them to like learn about birth. I wanted them to be present for birth. I wanted them to like experience the a woman's power giving birth. Like I want them to have that core memory now before they get to an adult and they have babies of their own and never see birth before. Yeah, so they were home for it, they were a part of it, like they were part, like it was a family event, you know? It wasn't just like mom and dad leave and come home. It was everyone was there. So the lead up to that birth was again, I was late. But two dates don't mean anything anyway. They were both she was born exactly 10 days late, just like my daughter was. You know, I was getting the kind of the pressure at the end, but in a different way. I didn't feel like I had this deadline, like I had to have a baby at a certain day. Like it wasn't like walk, eat dates, like do everything. But like there was, you know, I was I was uncomfortable. I was like kind of ready to be done being pregnant. Like I wanted to meet my baby, and uh, so I went to a yoga studio. A friend of mine took me because she was she gave me the advice like, I think the baby's not coming because you just need a moment to relax. You just need to like chill out. You have a lot going on. It was December, the holidays. There was a lot of pressure. I have three kids already trying to make Christmas special, you know, doing all the presents for the teachers and holidays and all that stuff. So I was just doing a lot and I just didn't really have a lot of opportunity to like slow down and settle down. So she's like, I'm gonna come to your house, I'm gonna pick you up. We're gonna go to this event at Sandara Yoga, it's in Brunswick, and it was a sound healing um where they do the singing bowls and all where you I was like, Do I have to like do yoga? I don't want to do yoga. She's like, No, you just lay there, it's really relaxing. And I was like, Okay, so I'm good with that. I'm good with laying there. That's good for me. So I went to that. I felt deeply relaxed. I was in and out of sleep. I was just like, so it was such a nice couple hours for me. And I came home and I remember my husband and I, my husband's a physical therapist, and he does some dry needling. And I was like, let's just find the acupressure points and just see what we do what happens if we do the the dry needling, like put some needles in the acupressure points just to kind of get things going. My nine-year-old likes to tell it that daddy electrocuted mommy to get the baby out of me. That's what he says. Like, remember when daddy electrocuted you to get the baby out? But yeah, I was very much relaxed, just like laying on the living room floor with some needles in like the acupressure points. And yeah, we all went to bed. And then I, you know, something woke me up in the night where I was starting to feel things, and you know, I was just so much more in tune with my body. I had I spent this entire pregnancy just immersed in birth, and like this is the one like I owned like birth sub preparation. Like, I learned everything. I listened, I took walks and listened to podcasts almost every day of that pregnancy. Um like Dr. Sarah Buckley, Raya Dempsey, Wapia. Like, I was just like going down this rabbit hole of like birth is amazing. And I was like learning from all these wise women, and I was, yeah, I just felt like I was really embodying the whole experience and just getting obsessed with everything about birth. And uh, so I really felt just super confident going into it. Like I just felt like I knew what my body needed to do. I learned the whole like being safe and being private and you know, physiologic birth and the best conditions that support that. So I just I I did hire a doula because I was like, I hired the doula because I was thinking about my other three kids being home. And I was like, I want them to be there, but I don't want them to need me for anything. If it is in the middle of the day, I had a three-year-old at the time, so I was like, I just need someone there in case my husband needs to be managing the kids. I need like another woman there with me, like supporting me. So we did hire a doula for that case just to like help manage some of the logistics of having three other kids at home. And uh the long story short is the doula missed it and the midwife missed it, but they were there right afterwards. So let's see, I started feeling those contractions. I was laying in bed and I was just doing a lot of like picturing this like spiral getting bigger and bigger and bigger with each contraction. Like I just remember like it's starting small and it would just like get like bigger, and I would just like feel it. And I was like picturing a flower bloom. I was like trying really focusing on keeping my jaw and my mouth relaxed, and I remember I was saying like open and soften and just really trying to like stay as as calm and relaxed as possible. Um, I got a tens unit for this birth. So I remember, you know, I was in and out of the bathroom a lot as I usually am, as birth usually is, but at some point I got in the tub just to get a little more relaxed and stay, you know, present with myself and calm, and that helped for a little bit. And then I got out of the tub and drive myself off, and I put the tens unit on for some contractions to help me kind of just breeze through some of them. That didn't last as long as I thought it would. I didn't really love the tens unit. I thought it would be better than it was, but um yeah, my husband woke up, the kids were still asleep, but my husband woke up and supported me. And you know, we had a whole plan where the baby was gonna be born downstairs in this bedroom. We had, you know, a whole list of supplies that we had to get. We had a tub, a blown-up that my kids loved to play in leading up to that birth. Like they just like loved playing in that empty tub because it was like a kind of like the one that you blow up because it was like all soft where they could like jump on it and stuff, which I was we were borrowing it, so we had to be careful that we didn't put a hole in it. But that um, so the tub was downstairs, there was no water in it, but it was like all blown up and ready. And um, again, it was December, so a lot of the device advice I got was like the baby needs to be like really warm when she comes out, so you really gotta make sure you're like wherever you're gonna. Give birth, like there's gonna be really a really warm place. So we had like a space heater in this room downstairs, and so yeah, I'm laboring along. I'm upstairs, I'm in and out of the bathroom in my bedroom, and just you know, wanting to be by myself and wanting to be alone and wanting to be undisturbed. Yeah, so I didn't feel the need to call the midwife, I didn't feel the need to call the duel, I didn't want like extra eyes just standing there and watching me. I really wanted to be private. And like even my husband would come in and check on me, be like, Are you okay? Like, I'm like, Yeah, I'm fine. Like, I didn't even want, like, I didn't really even need him to be with me. I just wanted to be alone. Like, I loved knowing that he was there if I needed anything, but um, I didn't really feel like I needed someone right there with me. So, you know, it's getting closer and closer, and then I start like kind of making the grunting noises where it's like, oh, like it feels like I need to poop, or you know, like pushing basically is starting. And you're upstairs still. I'm still upstairs, yeah. And hadn't called anybody. Haven't called anybody, nope. And I and kids are still mostly asleep, and my husband comes in to check on me and he looks at me and he's like, You're pushing, like, what's happening? And I'm like, Yeah, I think I am pushing a little bit. Like, you know, it's still not really making a lot of sense in talking to him. I'm definitely in like this primal start of brain. But his whole thing is like he remembers the midwife says, like, you need to be somewhere warm. You need to be we need to get you downstairs to that bedroom. Like, basically, is like he's like look a little bit of a look of panic in his eyes. He's like runs downstairs, tries to start filling up the tub, like getting that ready because the plan was to have a water berth. And uh, you know, we have like poor water pressure, like, and it's not filling up nearly as quickly as it needs to be filling up because I'm basically starting to push. So he like kind of forces me to get off the toilet upstairs, and he's like, I need you to come downstairs now. Like, we're doing, we're getting you downstairs. Now's the time. Kids are starting to wake up, they're hearing things, like, momentum is building a little bit. So I remember going down those stairs and being like, Whoo, this is super uncomfortable. I couldn't have gotten down those stairs without his help. There's no way I could have just like walked down those stairs. Like I was totally leaning on him and he was helping me down the stairs. We go downstairs through the kitchen into that room. I see the tub, and I noticed that it's barely full of water. But we also had a mattress set down set up next to it because the midwife had told us like have the tub set up, but also have a mattress set up next to it in case like we need to get you out of the tub for any reason. So I I walk into the room, I see the tub, I see that it's not filled up, I just see the mattress, I get down on hands and knees, and like I just start pushing right away. My husband's like on the phone with Rebecca, she's on her way, but she's coming from Whitefield to where we live on Westport Island, and she's in and out of service. So it's like losing connection, and he's just like she's trying to talk him through it, and he's luckily he handles situations like that quite well. Like, we've we've had a couple like situations where like we've shown up to a car accident first before anybody else, and he just has a very good way of like handling things and staying calm. So I never questioned his ability to help me. We've also been through birth together before, um, but yeah, like I'm just on hands and knees and I'm just pushing and her head comes out, and then he's on the phone, he's like, her head's out, her head's out. And then uh yeah, like before I know it, like he's right behind me, just like seeing her face, and I'm still just pushing away. And then yeah, she's out and he catches her, he caught her. Like, as and I'm still and I remember um my kids were downstairs, it was around seven o'clock in the morning. My four-year-old had gotten up but fell back asleep downstairs on the couch, and that was the one I was worried about because I was worried that he was gonna need me and be scared. But he woke up and was asleep on the couch downstairs, so that was like best case scenario I could have had. The seven-year-old or the nine-year-old and the seven-year-old were around. My nine-year-old, for some reason, at seven o'clock in the morning, was outside in December. I have no idea why. But that was his way of like coping, I guess. He was like kind of he likes to play disc golf, so he was throwing frisbees outside. My seven-year-old daughter was kind of like peeking in and then like closing the door and peeking in and closing the door. And one of the times she peeked in was when the baby's head was out. So she got to see like me on hands and knees with the baby's head out, and like was like, and then she ran outside, like, Luca, the baby's coming, the baby's coming, she's here. I just saw her head pop out. And uh my uh my nine-year-old, once she was out, he heard her and he was like, That's not the baby, that's a cat, that's our cat. He thought the baby crying was our cat, like meowing. He's like, That's not the baby, that's kitty. And she's called me. My daughter's like, No, no, no, it's the baby. She's out of mommy. I just saw her. So yeah. So then I remember that moment that a lot of elders and wise women talk about of like needing to return. I really felt that moment of like I could I birthed the baby, and she was out, and my husband and she was on the mattress, like underneath me, and my husband had her, and I just wasn't ready to go to her. I needed a minute, like I just needed a minute to like recollect and like come back into myself before I could go to my baby. And I remember at the time being like, and like even like immediately looking back and being like, why didn't I want to like immediately grab my baby? Like, I wanted like I needed, I didn't want to immediately go to her. Like I wanted a moment to return to myself before I grabbed her. And now that I know what I know, like it's totally normal. It's like a lot of women need to like come back into themselves before they're ready to like grab their baby. That's why it's so nice for my husband to catch her and like have that moment with her to connect with her before I'm ready to, you know, because I had just gestated her and he caught her for me. And uh yeah, he received her. And like I remember it was a little bit of maneuvering because the placenta was still inside of me where I had to, you know, figure out how to go onto my back with the cord in between my legs and not kicking the baby behind me. But I came back into myself and I turned around and like got on the mattress with the wall, like some back support, and my husband handed her to me. And like it was just this beautiful moment of like my four-year-old wakes up and comes in, and my nine-year-old's there, and my seven-year-old's there, and we're just all together as one, like as a family, and it just felt like the most connected moment. Like nobody was excluded, everyone was there, everyone saw it, everyone was a part of it. It's like we all welcomed her together, and it was just just this insane memory that like I'll have with me for the rest of my life. Like, it was just beautiful, it was beautiful, and uh, you know, soon after that, I don't know what time was like because I'm in labor land or whatnot, but then the midwife comes in and the duel is there, and it was like they showed up exactly when we needed them. Like we just needed them to like help us, like, whoa, this happened. Like, we just needed like someone to kind of like take charge because we were just all like stunned, kind of feeling. Um, but they came in and they, you know, never took the baby from me. Like, that's not what they do when they leave the baby with their mother, you know. So they just helped like clean up and get things together, and they started the shout. Like, when I was ready, we did placenta come out yet. The placenta was birthed before they got there too. Yeah, yeah. The placenta was out and in a bowl. My husband had a bowl for it, and so we just had the baby in the placenta, and like she was just right up on me. And yeah, I wish I could show you pictures, but it was just incredible. And the tub was still being filled up, so what does my seven-year-old daughter do? Strips down naked and gets in the tub because of course somebody's gotta use it. Oh my gosh, I love that. So we're all we're all gathered around the baby, and she's inside the tub swimming away naked, all together. Um, so yeah, like they, you know, we just had this moment where we didn't cut the cord, we left it intact until it was completely white and not pulsing. So my baby got like all of her blood that belonged to her, which was amazing. And then we had like this ceremony to cut the cord where we asked the kids, like, who does anybody want to cut the cord? And uh I think my first my nine-year-old and my seven-year-old both said they wanted to. And then when it came down to cutting, I think one of them backed out, but the other one did. So my husband got to cut a little bit, and then I think my nine-year-old got to cut a little bit. So it was just like we did that together too, which was amazing. And yeah, she nursed right away. Like, she didn't even really, like, she barely cried. Like, it was just the most peaceful entering to the world. Like, she just came out in her own home. You know, she's in her own environment, she's with our microbiome, like our stuff. Um, and yeah, like now we go into that room, and like every year on her birthday, like I can be like, that's right where you were born, like right there. Like, this is where it all happened, and like my kids have those memories, and it just feels like the way birth is supposed to be, you know? It just feels like so natural, and like, you know, you live through every year on your child's birthday, you live through these experiences. Like, no mother doesn't remember that day on their child's birthday. So it's like you think it's just like a one day in your life, the day you give birth, but it's really not. It's like it's with you forever, if not every year on your kid's birthday, but also just like you know, so many things about them is like from their birth and the way they entered this world, and it just matters so much more than you think it does. So yeah, it was just the most incredible experience. And I have to say, having a midwife at your house and when they tuck you in, the tuck-in is the most glorious thing I have ever experienced. We had um, you know, it was again, it was December, so it was we ended up setting up a mattress on the floor in the living room right in front of our pellet stove, our fireplace. So, like I had, you know, the midwife and the doula there. They got me in bed, they got the baby right next to me. I had like a robe on with like the baby, like kind of like on my chest, like with the robe wrapped around both of us, laying in bed on our mattress with our covers and our sheets, like in front of that fire. Like it was just so magical. Like, and my kids all around me, you know.
Angela54:58
Like, did they camp out camp out there that night?
Kelly55:02
Yeah, right. The kids were down, like you. I think I think one of them slept next to us too. I think my oldest slept with us, you know, he just needed a little extra love from that big day, so he slept with us too that night. But yeah, I will say though, the one the other thing I do remember is the the um the uterus contracting pains uh gets worse, like for each baby, and I wasn't really read very well prepared for that. So she was definitely like nursing all night long, and I remember those labor like after pains of the uterus contractions were really much worse than the labor itself. But yeah, I can I can honestly look back at that labor and be like, I did not have pain. It was intense, but I would not call it painful. It was like a pressure and it was like a needed my attention, but not like hurting injury, like something's wrong kind of pain. There's not a it's not that's not what it is. So when people say like I had a pain-free birth, like I kind of get it. Like, I wouldn't describe it as pain, I would describe it as in pressure and intensity, but not pain.
Angela56:08
Oh my goodness, Kelly. That is such an incredible story. I know so amazing.
Speaker 156:16
Wow, yeah, yeah.
Kelly56:17
So how old is this baby now? So she turned one in December. Okay, 15 months. Yeah, and yeah, I feel like she's just the most like loved baby. I was just saying this morning, like my four seven-year-old and four-year-old, like every night they just get in bed and play with her and just love her. Like, we all just like appreciate her so much because and I just feel like a lot of that has to do with the way she was born and just like how they were there for it and they saw it all. And I'm just so happy that my daughter gets like that as her first impression of birth, and like that's what she's gonna remember now. Like, that's ingrained in her. The way she saw me do it is the way she's gonna do it now. So it's not just like your experience of birth, it's like your future generations and the way they birth, and you know, like I I can envision now like the way Colby's gonna give birth because she's gonna know what's normal what normal birth is now. Like, she's so lucky for that. So I'm just so happy that it went that way for our whole family.
Angela57:17
Oh my goodness, yeah. It's kind of like what Wapio talks about that evolution, you know, yeah, around birth. It it is changing and evil much.
Delayed Cord Clamping And Family Golden Hour
Kelly57:27
Yeah, yeah. I've taken a couple of Wapios courses now um with Jess too. I think you're doing some Wapio stuff, right? Yeah, oh my gosh, which did you join? Well, I'm not gonna I have four little kids, so I don't really plan on being at birth. So I'm kind of trying to like build this business around like the before and after using my PT degree kind of thing where I want to do like hands-on body work. I would say like the one thing I was missing in my birth prep with this fourth baby where I did a lot of listening to podcasts, like I would have loved to have someone like touching me and like feeling my belly and feeling my baby, and like giving me and her like some TLC and like maybe being like noticing what position she's in and optimizing space for her to find optimum position. So I just did um a certification in the body ready method where it's a lot of getting to know your posture and your movement patterns and exercises throughout pregnancy to create space in different areas of your pelvis. But I also want to do like more of a hands-on, like manual therapy body work kind of training. I don't know if it'll be like spinning babies or some sort of prenatal massage or something, but I've just felt like I would have loved to I feel like everyone's losing their skill of being able to touch your belly and determine where your baby is in your belly because we rely so much more on ultrasounds and stuff. And I just would love, I would have loved someone to like have their hands on me and being like, oh, there's her head. Like, oh, she's in the perfect position. Look at she's finding her way. You know, I just felt like that would have given me some reassurance to just know that she was in a good spot before labor begins and that she has like everything's balanced and equal and like I'm not restricted anywhere. I just think that's like a missing piece of pregnancy that I would have liked to have.
Angela59:15
Yeah, that's definitely a really awesome thing to offer people, and it's definitely something that isn't as available as much. I mean, except like through the midwives, but yeah, to have someone that can do that. Yeah.
Kelly59:28
Yeah. Yeah. So if I do once I start offering, I mean, I plan to do some like group workshops and stuff and birth education classes, just so people can understand, like bring people back to what birth is supposed to be, you know. Like I just want to like create this wave of, you know, it doesn't need to be like this. It doesn't need to be so disconnected, it doesn't need to be this like outsourcing to some authority figure and like not trusting your body and not believing in your own innate capability to birth your baby. Like, I just want to change that narrative because I feel like I've learned so much in my evolution of becoming a mother of four babies. I'd love to just like pass some of that wisdom on.
Angela1:00:11
Ah, definitely. So, what is the support that you offer now look like?
From Birth Stories To Perinatal PT Mission
Kelly1:00:16
Yeah, so I'm doing a lot of my training right now. You know, my baby's only one, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to exactly what I want to do, but I plan on offering right now a birth education course. I really want to touch on like I think I think we're kind of fighting an uphill battle of like the hospital versus home thing, and especially for that first birth. I mean, I don't know if I would have been ready to birth at home for my first baby. You know, it took me to my fourth one to get to that point where I could trust my body or trust myself enough to feel confident in that. So I want women to go where they feel safest. I think that's number one. But I would love to give them the tools to be like, you can do it your way, even if you're gonna be in the hospital. You don't need to just do whatever they tell you to do. Like you can advocate, you can have informed consent, you can know all your options. I don't think OBGYNs have the time to explain things well to people. So I'd love to offer some sort of like six or eight week kind of course to just like really give everybody their options to have a good plan going into it and kind of know more about what they're walking into when they're walking inside that hospital system. Like you're not just walking in to get this standard American birth. You can walk in and like get a birth that feels empowering, that feels like it was your decision. Like, because they say the number one thing that prevents birth trauma is just like feeling seen and heard more than anything, and that your your decisions were respected, like getting respectful care is the number one thing that prevents birth trauma. So I'd love to just set people up for success for that to start. And then I'd love to, you know, go down rabbit holes of like natural and holistic and home birth and do you know there's so much more you can do with it. But I think I want to start with that and then see where it goes from there.
Angela1:02:11
Yeah, that's so needed, and more people need to be talking about all of that.
Kelly1:02:15
Yeah, yeah, because yeah, I just feel like people don't know that they can walk into a hospital and they don't just have to say yes to everything they say. Like you have legal rights too. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to just be like, oh, I'm here, I'm on your turf, so you're in charge. Yeah, no, like you're paying for that hospital room, like yeah, that's yours now. Own it, take it.
Angela1:02:37
Just go in, start the tubs.
Kelly1:02:39
Yeah, yeah. But I really think like the other part of it is like, you know, the woman can't necessarily say what she wants when she's having a baby, like she needs to focus on that. So I really want partners to like like Wapio says, like the guardians, like I want them to take that, like take that power, and like this is your wife, this is your baby. Like, you're creating a family, and like you're the protector. So let's start. Let's start now. And like, you gotta know that you gotta know what she wants, you gotta know what your baby wants, like you gotta catch your baby. That would be amazing. Like, to start that connection off by like being the first hand to touch your baby, like that would be amazing to happen in the hospital. Um, yeah, but I really want to just empower partners to like have their voice and to just you know be more of an advocate so that the woman doesn't have to. Yeah, dads hold the charge for I love her manifesto for men. Yes, it's so empowering. I just love like I just and I'm like I'm like tempted to bring my husband in and be like, you gotta do this talk because they need to hear it from your perspective. Like, and he's still like my husband feels this deeper connection to our fourth baby by being the first hands that held her. Like, there's no doubt about it. Like, she a lot of the other kids are like, mommy, mommy, mommy, and he like when he grabs Isla from me, like you can just see it, like their connection is so much deeper because it started that way, and it just makes such a big impact on like their bonding and like just them feeling like more connected from the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Angela1:04:17
I definitely see that you don't know until you experience it.
Kelly1:04:21
So it's definitely different though. Definitely, like our yeah, our bonding, mine and Isla's, my fourth baby, our bonding was so much stronger because of that birth than I felt with that C-section baby. Like, obviously, love love him to death, but it definitely was more of like a stunned kind of feeling afterwards instead of this like empowered, like, my baby's here. Let like let me wrap her up. You know, it was just it just was so much more of a natural bonding process for that fourth baby because of the way she was born. Yeah, I definitely feel that so special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved that birth. Oh, it makes me want to do it again. I'm like, no, I definitely luckily no longer feel I would birth another baby, but I I don't need another child to look after it. Like, if only we could just do the birth.
Angela1:05:14
Oh, yes, birth. Yeah, but it's like it's so hard to get us ready for all of the things, you know, that are to come. It's like each each birth teaches us so many different things, whichever way that folds. It's yeah, yeah.
Kelly1:05:30
Like, I'm just so happy that I had that fourth birth because it just it opened my eyes to so many things about birth in general. Like, I don't think I would have become this enlightened if without that fourth baby, because I just learned so much from that. And now I just feel like I want to help other women see that. I just want to pass it down. Like, I just I want women to feel what I felt after I had that baby, like the most empowered feeling on top of the world, can do anything, the most. Trust and belief in yourself. Like you just you just feel like you can do anything that you do. It's crazy. You feel so powerful.
Angela1:06:09
There's really nothing like it.
Trusting Your Body And Changing The Culture
Kelly1:06:11
No, there isn't. I know. It's just what made what we're meant to do as women. Like we are meant to bore birth babies, and the way you do it matters for sure.
Angela1:06:20
Yeah. Well, as a final question, I we've had you've given already so many like amazing little tidbits of advice here and there through the episode. But as a final question, if you were just to share like one thing overall with new like pregnant women or new families, what is like one of the biggest things that you'd want to share?
Kelly1:06:43
Yeah, like I just feel like the first thing that's coming to me is like women trusting themselves. Like I just I don't know what's making us lose it, but we're just we're outsourcing when it should be coming from within. And I don't know how to get women to find that. I think one of the ways, like I wanted to be a pelvic PT, but I didn't want to clean up the mess of all the birth trauma and ugliness that happens in birth with all the postpartum issues. So I was like, I'm gonna go back to pregnancy and like get women to prepare for birth so that they don't have all of that mess in birth and they don't have all the postpartum issues. And now that I'm in the pregnancy and learning about that, I'm like, no, I need to go further back. Like I'm gonna hold circles for girls for when they first get their periods so that they can learn about their cycles and learn how to trust their bodies and learn to listen to themselves when they're tired, that they're allowed to rest and that they don't need to push through and they don't need to just stick a tampon up and carry on and take an ibuprofen when they have cramps and get to work. Like that's where it needs to start. So I keep feeling like I need to go back further and further. I'm like, I don't know where women are like losing this inner connection to themselves. But like obviously we live in a patriarchal society, like we live in a world where like women cyclical beings aren't respected, and like women's innate intuition is not respected. Like back in the tribal times, like women used to go into the red red tet and bleed together and like determine the future of their entire community because they had that intuitive sense while they were bleeding. Like it was respected, it was worshiped, like we were goddesses, like vulvas were painted on walls because it was like, you know, we just had this ability to like see clearly. So that's what I want to get back to. And it just seems like so like crazy and insurmountable sometimes. But I'm like, we just need to know that like our bodies and our blood and our ability to birth our babies is our power, you know, and no one should be taking that from us. So yeah, I just feel like if there's any way when you're pregnant to just like connect to yourself more, like find that inner knowing. Like, how do you find that? I don't know what it takes, but like I really think you need to be doing some sort of embodied, some sort of like deeper connection to self while you're pregnant, so that when you do go to birth your baby, you like you can listen to your body's signals and trust your body. Like, I just feel like that's what we're missing. We're walking into hospitals and being like, I don't know what's happening, ah, it's so painful, like, ah, it's chaos. Everybody around me, tell me what to do. Like, there needs to be some sort of like return to self in pregnancy where you like build that intuition birthing from within. I think that's the yeah. So I feel like that's the biggest thing that I would go with. And I don't even have the best advice yet for how women to how women can find that. I think it goes back to like when we're girls and messages that were given then.
Angela1:09:49
Yeah, like you said, even before it's generational, you know, like we're hearing these stories of like how our grant mothers and grandmothers' birth, and it's also medical at this point, yeah, like changing that, like your daughter is like seeing your birth out. Like what an amazing experience you've given her, and then you've got like homeschooling on top of that, and getting you know your kids out of the system and right, right, them yourself and like going to the doctor when you need them, but not going when you maybe just every little thing, yeah. It's like that medicalized mindset of like when you grow up, going to the doctor, okay, you're 16, 17, let's get you on birth control, let's go for the doctor. Let's go to the doctor for checkups every year. You know, this is it goes from the well child visits to like and then the adult visits, and then all of a sudden, once you're in the system and you're like 20 and you find yourself pregnant, it's like, of course, you're just gonna go to the doctor that you've been going to for the right, right? All the things all along. It's just like continuing the system, it's like breaking the chain by like that, like yeah, you know, just to go so far with home birthing.
Kelly1:10:52
Yeah, yeah, home birth, like getting your kids like to understand that they can trust their bodies, that your body can heal itself. You don't always need medicine, like a fever's good, it's your body telling, like getting rid of things, like you don't need to suppress it. Like it's just so much. Like it's there's a lot that needs to happen in order for things to really change. But if I can have one small piece of that, like I would just feel so, you know, I would be so happy to help make an impact in some small way. But like women are fierce, like women are capable, women's bodies are meant to birth birth babies. It's not a medical event, it's a physiological one. It's one that we have this innate sense of knowing that women for generations have been doing, and we just really need to just build that trust. And building trust is gonna look different for everybody, and not saying there's one way to build trust, but like we all need to return to that. We all need to find that inner knowing again. So, whatever that looks like for each individual woman, I can't say, but I just feel like that should be the overarching theme is like reconnecting to yourself and not like looking to somebody else to give you answers.
Angela1:12:03
Yeah, absolutely. And it does start at like such a young age, too. Like, because it's it is a lot of like you're just conditioning and environment and things you're exposed to on TV and yeah, media narratives makes a big difference.
Kelly1:12:16
Yeah, like it's so much of it, you know. And I just I hope I can make an impact for my daughter, but hopefully, you know, if not just her, it's her kids and my grandkids, and great, you know, it's gonna take generations to undo what's been done, so it's not gonna happen right away, but yeah, it's that trust and inner knowing that we just need to tune into more.
Angela1:12:37
Yeah, there's definitely a lot more families that are headed in that direction, it feels like. And yeah, it's amazing. It feels like time of starting the ship. Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's so amazing that you want to offer that to younger women because I feel like that is a huge piece that's missing. Like, there's really not a lot of explanation or like, you know, support for girls like going through those changes. And yeah, I feel like that's where like a lot of it can be lost.
Resources From Angela And Closing
Kelly1:13:02
Yeah, my friend Gretchen and I are coming up with this. Um, it's like a circle. It's called honoring the maiden. And it's gonna be for girls aged like nine to twelve. And it's kind of gonna be for that initiation, that rite of passage into Minark, where you we have a little bit on body literacy where I teach, you know, I'm a pelvic PT, so I have a pelvic model. I'm gonna teach them about their bodies on a pelvic model, like a 3D thing. Like this is your ethra, your vagina, your anus, like it leads to your uterus. Like, show them the uterus, you know, just getting more of that three-dimensional understanding of their bodies. And then we're gonna talk about the blood and we're gonna talk about the cycles, and we're gonna talk about how you're, you know, you might feel at school at different points in your cycle, or how you might feel in your extracurricular activities at different points in your cycle, how your mommy or dad might make you feel at different points in your cycle, and just really putting it on their language as far as how they might feel at different times in their cycle, in a way that they can relate to it. But then we're also going to include like some ritual and connection and just make sure these girls know that they're part of a circle of, you know, women that love them, their mom and other moms, or, you know, adults that care for them, and then a circle of friends that have been through this ceremony together with them that they can turn to when they do get their first period and they don't feel alone and they don't feel confused and they feel like they're connected to other girls going through the same thing. So we're gonna start running little circles, preferably in people's living rooms, just so it's more of an intimate setting. But we do have some spaces that we could offer it if we wanted to do it at like a more common area instead. So I hope that'll help start the process.
Angela1:14:44
Yeah, it's it that's awesome. I I love that. And please share the information with me when you do so I can I can maybe. Yeah, you seem like very well connected to the community. So I'd love to let you know of different things I come up with. Yeah, oh, that's so cool. Well, yeah, thank you so much, Kelly, for taking the time to chat with me today and sharing all memories.
Kelly1:15:04
Yeah, I hope I put it into words how special all these babies were to me and how impacted I've but I'm how much I've learned from each birth. So, you know, everything's taught every one of them has taught me something different. So I'm grateful for all of them.
Angela1:15:20
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton of resources for pregnancy and birth. If you're pregnant, whether you're a first-time mom or if this is your fifth baby, I want you to check out the show notes because I have some free trainings and free downloads that you can sign up for, as well as the link to access My Labor of Love, a comprehensive, self-paced online childbirth education course. I created this course specifically for moms who don't want to be told what to do, regardless of where you're birthing or who you're birthing with. And I'd honestly love to teach you everything that I know so that you can prepare for an autonomous birth experience and prepare to step into your role as the leader of your birth journey. So, click to the show notes, check out all of those links, and if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main birth over on Instagram.
